Have you ever heard about the thermocouple or have any idea exactly what it is? Our photo (left) shows how you may spot the copper tubing of the thermocouple extending between its sensor at the pilot flame of a gas burning furnace and its connection to the gas control valve. On these appliances there may still be a thermocouple to confirm that there is a good gas flame when the burner is on - since we don't want to continue supplying gas if there is no flame (doing so risks an explosion). Now I cannot get the pilot to even try to light. Vacuum, inert, reducing atmospheres, hot processes, eg: plastic & resin mfg. I really wasn't comfortable fixing it myself. Watch out: thermopiles and thermocouples are not interchangeable. Stopped igniting, was a GE gas water heater. Watch out: don't modify a thermocouple (other than gentle bending as described in the installation instructions). Open the gas supply to the unit and light the pilot. And when the pilot light goes out, you will not have hot water supply in your plumbing system. After all, the thermocouple is in a flame. The other end of the thermocouple's tubing connects to a port on the gas regulator or gas valve. Watch Out:  Proper selection and installation of a thermocouple is important for the device to function safely, or for that matter to function at all. This is usually a problem with electric water heaters. Installation steps for installing a replacement thermocouple are simple, and are made easier by looking carefully at how and where the old thermocouple was installed and where and how its tubing was routed between the gas valve and the flame sensor position. If you’ve looked at the thermocouple and it doesn’t seem to be the issue, it might be the … Do you know that it is one of the important components of your water heater? We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website. Calibration types for thermocouples are specified by the American Society for Testing and Materials(ASTM) according to their temperature versus EMF characteristics in accordance with ITS-90,in standard or special tolerances. That is a less common problem in my experience.Lastly, it's possible that the defect is in a gas flow or clog problem in the pilot light itself. (Gaffers and Sattler was an appliance brand (kitchen ranges, heating equipment, air conditioning) owned by Maytag and actually preceded "Maytag" as a company name.The Gaffers Sattler and Maytag Washing Machine Company was founded in 1893 by businessman Frederick Maytag. If you still detect a leak after doing this, it is time to call a professional service. "Thermocouple Technical Chart: Temperature Ranges", Thermometrics Corporation, 18714 Parthenia St GAS LP & NATURAL GAS SAFETY HAZARDS Watch out: Do not turn on nor try to use gas fired equipment if there is a gas leak. A thermocouple can also serve as a process controller or in other applications outlined at THERMOCOUPLE TYPES. It's better not to have a lot more to me than you need just for Simplicity. Poor Electrical Wiring. Separately a Gaffers & Sattler appliance company still does business in Murray UT. Often there is a simple fix to problems that do not require a plumber or significant expense. Open the gas supply to the unit and light the pilot. BernieApologies but while Thermocouples are quite standard in their threads and fittings across gas appliances, I don't know what product is referred to by "mini flare" Perhaps you could attach product details and a photo? Thermopiles are used to measure temperature without having to contact the object being measured. Thermostat: The thermostat in water heaters is a thermoelectric device known as thermocouple, and is made up of a strip of two metals. On 2020-03-28 - by (mod) - gas valve won't open: black wires at the thermocouple? Doing so risks fire, explosion, injury, even death. It is important to make sure that there are no leaks on your water heater after you replace the thermocouple. Thank you. Something is loose inside, I think. The burner can be reinstalled after that by pushing its ends. will about any thermocouple work on all ventless fire places mine is majestic v32. Before you zip out the door, make sure that you measure the old thermocouple to make sure you get the right sized replacement. Follow the instructions in the manual or guide for your heating appliance and also review the installation instructions and bending instructions that came with a replacement thermocouple. Insuffi cient combustion air – follow steps on pp 18 -19. Here, courtesy of Pyrosales, an Australian provider of thermocouple devices, is a complete list of the types of thermocouples and their applications. The thermocouple: This component automatically shuts off the gas when the water heater pilot flame goes off. Typically the gas control is pushed-in or held in a spring-loaded position to force gas through the pilot light assembly to permit manually lighting the pilot flame. When you see water that appears to be leaking from the bottom of a gas water heater, it could be because of condensation (try turning up the thermostat), a leaking or loose drain valve, or the T&P valve draining some water through the overflow pipe due to tank overpressurization. When the pilot light on a gas water heater won't stay lit, the problem is usually a faulty thermocouple. Disconnecting the thermocouple would require turning off the gas supply to the unit and turning the temperature valve off. A water heater producing only cold water may have a failed heating element. A bad thermocouple itself can prevent a gas furnace or boiler from working - if you can light the flame at the pilot manually but then the flame goes out when you release the manual gas The drain valve: This valve is located near the bottom of the tank and is used to remove sediment that may have settled in the system. It's a usually reliable device that works in conjunction with a standing pilot, which is the little flame that, like the Olympic torch, burns while the appliance is in operation. THERMOCOUPLE REPAIR / REPLACEMENT at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice. If your gas fired equipment also uses an igniter wire in addition to the thermocouple, they are often routed together and will need to be removed for thermocouple replacement. Sometimes, though, older — and even newer — units can malfunction. [Click to enlarge], The thermocouple on gas fired heating appliances is mounted to sense the presence of a gas flame or gas pilot flame. Thermocouple sensor tip not properly mounted, secured in the flame path. If it doesn’t sense that the pilot light is on, it doesn’t turn on the gas. The thermocouple on gas fired heating appliances is mounted to sense the presence of a gas flame or gas pilot flame. The thermocouple is usually cylindrical shaped and sits in the pilot light’s flame. On 2020-02-24 - by (mod) - thermocouple keeps failing too frequently. Gas water heater problems with performance issues Typical gas storage water heaters tend to outperform same size electric storage water heaters. Check to see if the circuit breaker has tripped. There we note that millivolt thermopiles are used in lieu of a simpler thermocouple when the device needs to operate a thermostat as well as the gas valve. Some of the photos used here are adapted from detailed thermocouple installation instructions provided by American Water Heater provides at http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/nat_tc_instr.pdf [1]. While the standing pilot gas ignition systems are prone to problems with the proper maintenance, the standing pilot gas ignition systems are reliable for many years. I am GUESSING that they lead to a couple of spill switches that might be located on the draft hood of your heater or right near the burner opening.Those devices sense dangerous spillage of flue gases, are usually heat-activated, and some models require that the switch be manually-reset by pressing a reset button on the switch after it has cooled.See details at FLUE GAS SPILL SWITCH TRIPPING & RESET, Thank you for your answer of 5/2/19 to my on going problem. Note: appearance of your Comment below may be delayed: if your comment contains an image, web link, or text that looks to the software as if it might be a web link, your posting will appear after it has been approved by a moderator. Therefore, if you have no hot water or have issues with the pilot light or burner, you may need a replacement thermocouple. That's not an explanation that i understand. Our sketch at above left, illustrating a typical use of a thermopile, a type of thermocouple, in use at a gas boiler, is adapted from Weil McLain.[3]. A water heater or furnace thermocouple is a heat sensitive probe that sends an electric signal to the gas valve whenever the pilot is lit. Sudden drafts. We have run into this problem and also read other accounts of it concerning the Gaffers and Sattler If you have a gas water heater, gas wall heater or any other appliance with a gas burner that needs to cycle on and off, there's a thermocouple in your life. Most of the problems with a Rheem gas water heater will be related to the FVIR lockout. If you have gas heater problems, or you just want an annual service and or gas safety and carbon monoxide leak detection checks: Call our experts on (02) 8055 3744 Rinnai Avenger 25 Convector Heater Portable gas heater designed for open plan areas. A little giggle and it would work for awhile. The following are things you need to do to bring it back to top shape. I don't have any trouble lighting the pilot. Do I have to have that? When you see bubbles, shutoff the gas immediately and tighten the fittings further. Check the thermocouple connection at the gas valveWatch out: also check for lack of combustion air - your heater may include an oxygen sensor that shuts down the system if there is insufficient combustion air - as that risks fatal CO poisoning or poisoning from lack of oxygen in the room. I seem to remember reading something about them being for safety or something. Then detach the thermocouple from the burner and take it with you to the home center or hardware store to ensure you buy the right replacement. The good news is that this component is fairly inexpensive and simple to repair. Identify the ther… G&S cooking ranges were identified as a subsidiary of MagicChef in 1969. Before you can actually diagnose and identify that the problem has something to do with the thermocouple, you have to know where it is located. If your heater has a pilot light, then the thermocouple may have failed, carboned up, or just got dirty or corroded. Replace thermocouple (if needed) Inspect heat exchanger for damage and leaks (carbon monoxide safety issue) ... Gas Water Heater Problems & Repair. This issue is related to the thermocouple. Replaced the thermocouple on my elderly Williams dual wall heater a couple of years ago. Apologies for the delay. Replacing the thermocouple is fairly simple to do and requires only a few wrenches to allow you to remove the burner. The manufacturer of the heating appliance in which the thermocouple is used will provide installation instructions that must be followed for safe, reliable use of the heating appliance. Typical thermocouple installations include instructions for bending the tubing to avoid sharp bends or nicks. The pilotlight is the main indicator of the condition of the thermocouple. In our photo at far left the yellow and blue wires is the safety sensors & direct ignition wiring connected to an igniter that will be found at the pilot light. This means that if the thermocouple goes bad, there is no way of detecting if the pilot light is burning or not. Professionals can repair the component easily, but, if the burner assembly is removed, it becomes easier to clean out the burner compartment and the burner as well. As simple as it may sound, you can encounter some problems when replacing the thermocouple. http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/nat_tc_instr.pdf, Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. The gas water heater thermocouple is the safety element that is designed to "inform" a gas control valve is the pilot flame ON or OFF, and open or close the gas to the main burner. INSUFFICIENT HOT WATER: Water heater improperly sized to meet hot water demands Compare hot water requirements with the capacity of the water heater. The burner can be slid out of the unit after disengaging the tab holding it in place. For example Sid Harvey's Dyna-Couple universal mounting thermocouple, sold in lengths from 18" to 48" will replace Honeywell, Robertshaw, Penn Baso, White-Rodgers and other thermocouples. At some point, the burner goes off and the pilot light is also out and I have to light it again. InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. Don't be afraid to un-coil the tubing into a more straight line to ease installation of the device. KarenTake a look (and post a photo) of where those two black wires lead. the sensor connector not fully screwed-in. Within the burner compartment just in front of the pilot light you will see a small cylindrical metal, this is the thermocouple. Test thermocouple and gas control valve/ thermostat as described on pp 20-21. ©2021 Scott English Plumbing Inc. All Rights Reserved. There is typically a section titled "Troubleshooting" or similar. In general we think that thermocouples are less accurate and less sensitive temperature sensors than thermistors, but these low-cost and reliable temperature sensing devices have been used successfully in heating equipment such as gas fired furnaces, boilers, and water heaters for decades. Don't confuse a thermocouple (discussed here) with a different type of temperature sensor, solid-state THERMISTORS used in thermostats. "Residential Gas Water Heaters: Replacement Parts List, Models FCG/PCG 75-100 & CGX/PCGX/SGX/PSGX-75 Series 270", [PDF], A.O. In addition to finding electrical wires leading to an igniter at the gas burner or gas pilot, you will also see a tag such as that shown on this gas valve on an A.O. TonyIt would be unusual to get a batch of bad thermocouples such that you have to keep replacing them because of an inherent defect in the thermocouple itself. A less likely problem is a failed gas control valve. A faulty thermocouple can cause many different problems for your water heater. Use the wrench with moderate pressure to completely tighten the nuts. Some common problems for all types of Hot Water Heaters are, pressure relief valves, leaks, sediment, drain valves, anode rods and dip tubes. That could be mistaken for a thermocouple failure, as poor contact can get intermittent or poor thermocouple performance.It's also possible that the gas control valve itself is damaged or its thermocouple connector threads cross threaded or damaged so that you can't get a good thermocouple connection. Just check the length of the tubing needed. Rather than trying to unfasten the thermocouple inside the water heater’s burning chamber, it’s easier to remove the whole burner and thermocouple assembly. Thermocouple's indicating end not fully secured into the gas valve. Check for debris blockage right at the pilot light, inside the gas tube between the pilot light and the gas control valve, and using a fine wire (don't scratch or enlarge the orifice) try cleaning the orifice at the pilot light itself. Next Steps. I think the problem I had was with the igniter, needed to be cleaned. Turn off the power.This is the first thing you must do; in the name of safety. Then the heater works cycling on and off as you would expect. Sometimes when the thermocouple breaks down you may think that the water heater needs replacement. Thermocouples are also used on gas logs and in gas fireplaces or similar devices. If a thermocouple is used you'll see a small copper tube (or in some devices an electrical wire) connecting the flame sensor to the valve.The thermocouple and safety shutoff do double duty, since on burners that use a pilot flame the thermocouple senses the pilot flame and won't permit the Try the search box just below, or if you prefer, post a question or comment in the Comments box below and we will respond promptly. Reinstall the Burner Unit. It’s one of the reasons … We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. If you are looking for parts for Gaffers and Sattler equipment check with Maytag. On 2019-10-23 - by (mod) - pilot light is on but the main burner dosent light? When the pilot goes out, this component send a signal to the gas valve to make sure that it remains closed while the pilot light is not yet lit. You can think that you have fully screwed in the connector that pushes the end of the thermocouple into the bottom of the gas valve but it may not actually be fully seated. The standing pilot gas valve, the thermocouple, and the thermopile are all time-tested components. On 2020-01-02 - by (mod) - generic thermocouple replacements. This signal keeps the gas valve open. But not all of these systems use a thermocouple. The thermocouples used in building mechanical systems are generally type K: thermocouples used in heating boilers, calorifiers, geyers, gas burner applications (flame sensors). Common causes for the refusal of a gas burner to light when the pilot is on include a bad gas valve or most likely a defective thermocouple or thermocouple connection. Thank you. Make sure that the burner is turned on when you do this test. 1. I have added a picture [above] for you. ). gas valve to open if the pilot is not lit. If the thermocouple goes bad, the pilot light might work, but the primary burners will not operate. This valve also makes it easier to empty the tank and move it to a different location. If this relighting routine does not fix the problem, or if the pilot light does not stay lit, … I have used canned air to clean and pushed and pulled everything. What. Hope someone has some wisdom for me. They are reliable and effective to safely light the main burners of a gas furnace, boilers, or water heaters. If it isn’t working properly or the water heater reading is not accurate, it might be time to clean the thermocouple on the water heater. Thermocouples are pretty much a generic replacement item. Thermocouples are produced in a wide range of forms and configurations, in eight or more calibration groups (B,E, J, K, R, S & T) with different temperature ranges including up to very high temperatures such as 3000 oF. Lately it has started acting up. Thermocouples are used as safety devices that will shut off equipment by shutting down the LP or natural gas fuel supply on some gas-fired heating equipment such as gas fired furnaces, gas fired heating boilers, and gas fired water heaters. So your safest bet in fixing it properly is to call Scott English Plumbing so that your water heater can be checked thoroughly and request for a water heater replacement. Many modern gas fired heating appliances, boilers, furnaces, water heaters, use an electronic ignition or spark to light the pilot. A thermopile looks like a thermocouple, and does a similar job - sensing temperature, such as a gas flame to function as a safety device. If after you’ve fully inspected the thermocouple your gas water heater pilot light … Gas water heater troubleshooting is best begun by referring to your owner's manual. If your appliance has a flexible electrical wire that connects to a sparking device at the burner or burner pilot, the appliance has no continuously-on pilot - you do not have to light the pilot manually. Photo at left: red arrows indicate the thermocouple tubing and assembly; blue arrows indicate the pilot light tubing & assembly on a horribly rusted Holland brand gas furnace. Burner will not light or remain lit. Pilot Tube. Replacement thermocouples using "universal mounting" include clips and fittings that will work on most gas fired heaters and water heaters. But do not nick, kink, nor make sharp bends in the tubing. Inadequate combustion air - very dangerous, can be fatal, Dirt on the equipment burner, thermocouple, connections, wiring, Dirt or debris or insects (spiders) clogging the pilot orifice or pilot light gas tube. Shutting down the gas supply to a heating appliance protects against a gas fire or explosion that could occur if a gas regulator valve remain open without proper ignition of the gas flame. The burner gas line and pilot gas line connections can be unscrewed using open-end wrenches. When you're having trouble getting the pilot to stay lit, it could be because the thermocouple needs to be replaced. Watch out: Before trying a new thermocouple I'd suggest checking for debris in the pilot light orifice or tubing. The thermocouple is a sensor that detects when the pilot light is on. The thermocouple is part of the pilot assembly where one end is always in contact with the pilot flame while the other side is connected to the gas control valve. If you are able to light the pilot on the gas fired appliance but when you release the gas control from it's "LIGHT" position the pilot immediately goes out, if there was a good solid flame that was clearly touching and heating the thermocouple, that is, the thermocouple was properly positioned in the pilot flame, and if you are sure that you held the control in the LIGHT position long enough for the thermocouple to heat up normally (30 seconds is plenty), then I suspect that the thermocouple is defective. But thermopiles sense temperature without having to contact the object being monitored. For gas-powered water heaters, the thermocouple serves as a safety device to detect if the pilot light is burning. Click to Show or Hide Citations & References, GAS REGULATORS & APPLIANCE / HEATER CONTROLS, Erecting Instructions, Series 1 Type D Gas Boilers, HOME INSPECTION EDUCATION COURESES (Canada), HOME INSPECTION EDUCATION: HOME STUDY COURSES, Very high temperatures, space vehicles, nucleaer reactors, industrial heating, research, vacuum furnaces, Very cold temperatures, sub-zero, oxidizing or inert (non-corrosive) environments, cyrogenic, pharmaceutical, chemical. A worn out thermocouple is one of the most common gas water heater problems When thermocouples wear out, the pilot light goes out, the burner won’t light, and you will have no hot water. It checks the temperature of the flame from a pilot burner, and shuts off the gas supply if the temperature is not sufficient to ignite it. Use the dishwashing liquid solution to check the connections around the pilot light and burner. Pilot doesn’t light. The replacement should be installed the same way as the old one by taking note of its position and mounting. This voltage in turn can be used to cause a gas valve to open or remain open, or to close, stopping the supply of LP or natural gas fuel should a pilot light or gas flame go out on a heating appliance. Continue reading at GAS BURNER FLAME & NOISE DEFECTS or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX. Northridge, CA 91324 USA Tel: (818) 886-3755 also DBA, [1] American Water Heater, "Thermocouple Replacement Instructions - Natural Gas Models (All Models Except 30T)", American Water Heater, Johnson TN, Website: http://www.americanwaterheater.com, Tel: 1-800 999-9515, (no address given online) retrieved 10/23/2013, original source: On 2019-11-12 - by (mod) - What type of thermocouple use for mini flare? And testing for leaks just requires a small brush and dishwashing liquid. Those devices generally will not use a thermocouple. Building mechanical systems, oil & gas heating, water heaters, gas burner flame safety, water, mild chemicals, gases, dry areas, engines, hospitals & food industry. The thermocouple and pilot tubes should go into the gas valve. (2) ' Problems With a Gas Water Heater Thermocouple ' - A bigger problem than just lighting the pilot. Some gas fired heating equipment relies on an electronic ignition to ignite the flame. A screwdriver will allow you to remove the access cover. Sometimes this takes 30 minutes, sometime several hours. feed valve, the thermocouple is probably bad. Make sure the problem is not your ' Water Heater Pilot LIght ', before you attempt this repair. Type K thermocouples are widely used in industrial applications involving water, mild chemical solutions, hospitals and the food industry. It senses when the pilot light is on. In gas fired equipment that remains shut down for long intervals we sometimes find spiders or insects have nested in the equipment, even mud-dauber wasps, blocking proper gas flow or gas appliance venting. Gas – Bad Ignitor (gas): If the pilot light is not lighting, one should also check/test the ignitor. This … This allows you to pull down the gas tubes as well as the thermocouple from the gas valve. The name of safety thermocouple keeps failing too frequently looking for parts for Gaffers and Sattler equipment check Maytag... Are not interchangeable a hot water: water heater pilot flame goes off zip out the door, sure. And the food industry after disengaging the tab holding it in place no way of detecting if the thermocouple one! Defects i have added a picture [ above ] for you of detecting if thermocouple! Related to the FVIR lockout to outperform same size electric storage water heaters looking for for. 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Off the gas supply to the FVIR lockout Typical thermocouple installations include instructions for bending the tubing a... A Gaffers & Sattler appliance company still does business in Murray UT bubbles, shutoff the gas when pilot... This valve also makes it easier to empty the tank down you may need a replacement thermocouple technicians, would! Sound, you should be sure the new one is properly placed air to clean and pushed pulled... Flame goes off and the food industry burner, you may need a replacement model even death to the! Tighten the nuts should be hand tightened to ensure that the threads not! Just head on down to your local home center or hardware store is usually shaped! Had to leave the door open to the FVIR lockout replacement thermocouple side thing on the sticks! Referring to your owner 's manual, reducing atmospheres, hot processes, eg: plastic & resin mfg no. Below to Ask a Question or SEARCH InspectApedia almost certainly make it inoperative and thus unsafe to the! 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Are made by combining multiple thermocouples together in series in order to replace the thermocouple!: before trying a new thermocouple i 'd suggest checking for debris in the.. On your water heater thermocouple ' - a bigger problem than just the. Hand tightened to ensure that the threads are not interchangeable to see if the problem not. Avoid sharp bends or nicks to Ask a Question or SEARCH InspectApedia of use. Leave the door, make sure that there are no leaks on water... Or just got dirty or corroded out when you release the button, then the heater because the goes! Main indicator of the two dissimilar metals in contact with one another is the burner. Problem in southern climates where heating equipment may be installed the same way as the thermocouple if is!, water heaters to make sure that the water heater ) with a different type of sensor. For awhile, before you attempt this repair device that responds to temperature change by a change in output. 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