The power, authority, glory…. (S3) The Holy Spirit is God. This means that somebody else held that power at some point in time! God cannot die. According to the Trinity Doctrine Christ was Only "BEGOTTEN" when He was actually "INCARNATED" and became fully Human. Verses that speak about His throne with the father. Well, you started out by telling us we’re mixed up and then I replied by showing that we’re not the ones who are mixed up. Thanks for taking the time to comment, it looks like you put some time into that! 1Ti_2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Do you want to die in your sins? if Jesus was a Jew then he should agree with Judaism’s core creed? 1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. how? I prefer the first answer but He wasn’t fully glorified until after He was resurrected. US! What people don’t understand is that God can be everywhere at the same time and still be God in heaven. Learn about six of the major cultural currents tugging at all of us, including how to spot them, and how Christianity offers a more satisfying way of thinking and living. 1st John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. I prayed on it I’ve been to church and I didn’t know they were called The Church of the Holy Trinity !!! Another interesting place to look is t all the salutations (beginnings) of the letters. I would also point out Isaiah 9:6 prophesied what people would call him, not what he is. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Php 2:9  For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name. ), 787: Nicea II (can icons of Christ be worshiped? Yeah, Marc, almost every page of the Gospels makes the Trinity impossible. The Trinity is the ground of God’s love. The Bible states that the three forms of God are: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and all three are equivalent in power. Jesus is the Mediator between God and man. No. The passage proves, therefore, that it is proper to apply to Christ the name Lord and God, and thus accords with what John affirmed in John 1:1, and which is established throughout this gospel. Jesus is Israel's husband (Rev 21:9). That means is a mystery. If you look up the word “deliverer” in an English bible, you will see that it applies to people as well as Yahweh Himself. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. No longer equal to God, but obedient. This is also saying you do not believe so your calling God a liar because you don’t believe he is his only begotten son. That Son was due his inheritance even before his father died. John 1: 1-5 is what’s referred to as a “sod” level scripture. JN 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. Should scare the heck out them dont you think?). 1. Historically, most writers have held that even if the existence of God could be known by natural reason, his Trinitarian character could only be discovered through revelation. I mean that is so ridiculous it wouldnt even merit a response. St. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. It is the foundation of the work of the Cross. As you can see it is not for the purpose to say he is the Almighty God it is to show Thomas that Jesus was really resurrected and alive again. Pastor its not me saying this the scriptures do. he cannot have two minds, one that knew something and another that did not know something, unless we now want to make the absurd claim that mind and person are not correlated, so if Jesus was God, he did know everything and lied about not knowing the day of his return…but if Jesus lied then he cannot be God, for God cannot lie (Titus 1.2), Jesus did not know everything because he wasn’t God, Jesus emptied himself of his divine qualities. Messiah means Gods anointed. Philippians 2:6 ACTS 2:23 Him(Jesus), being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: ACTS 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he(Jesus) should be holden of it. This was the setting in which the doctrine of the Trinity emerged. Jesus (Yeshua) is not just the “Son of God,” he is “God with us.” Being God with us, Emmanuel, he was called the son because he was a “male child that was born.” The Spirit that brought about the inception of Jesus was God. This is a serious game your playing and you need to see the judgement attached to your doctrine because you are teaching something that is condemning people to die in their sins. Those terms are Oneness or Modalist. and are dead in your sins. I just knew it was Christian and as soon as I heard Holy Trinity I got up and walked out not because I’m so full of wisdom and I’m a smart guy because I’m not and when people claim that I am , I say no no I’m not it is the HOLY SPIRIT , given me the discernment !! Please look at the salutations and closings of every letter of Paul. What did that Old testament Prophet say in Rev. A basic definition of the Trinity. Jesus said…. Penalty for this belief? 3. Why is the doctrine so dependent on personal interpretation? “The gospel is … (Isa 9:6-7 Brenton). As it stands you don’t have a mediator because you don’t believe this scripture. You don’t believe so you don’t have a mediator because you don’t believe that Jesus is Gods only begotten son you think there is only one person God alone and he played all three roles which there is no scripture saying this anywhere in the bible its a fable of man not Gods Word. The Centrality of the Trinity. The Holy Ghost is neither Father nor Son, but both. Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. That poor holy spirit guy he just doesnt get any respect at all does he. Good thing I didn’t use more verses lol. Thus, the Divine Unity consists of the Father, with His Son and His Spirit distinct from Himself and yet perfectly united together in Him. Trinitarian doctrine prepares people for this, making them docile sheep in the end times, ready to be led to the slaughter. 22:18,19 it is clear that if you add to what is written there, the plagues written in the book will be added to you. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. chapter 22 for something to tie to earlier chapters, I saw Rev. Three Co-existant, eternal and equal? It is the basis of Christian community. There are two. A veritable revolution in Jesus scholarship in the last century occurred when scholars began taking seriously that Jesus and his earliest followers were Jewish, living in a particular socio-political Sitz im Leben, which is typically designated as second temple Judaism. Christ intercedes which means He is between us and the Father, advocating for us. Compare Acts 14:13-15; Revelation 22:8-9. they [most Christians] thought they could solve the problem of their celestial mathematics, stating that one plus one plus one is NOT three, but one! Thousands of people saw Yeshua. Mark 13.32 “But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.”, Jesus didn’t know something => Jesus was not omniscient. (NIV) “13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. Son Of God!!! It says right here you don’t believe the record HE GAVE of his SON. For more information on this most important topic, please go to our congregational website http://www.thewordandtheway.net/son-of-god/, “The biggest and most fundamental problem with the doctrine of the Trinity is that its ultimate conclusion is that Jesus did not actually die and was not actually resurrected by the Father…” The brief reality is… If I have missed or misunderstood Kel’s arguments, anyone who reads… Greek works like Spanish where the word “el” can mean “it” or “he”. Here I’ll stick with what I know the most about, the text of the New Testament. St. John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The word is WITH God in the beginning and WAS God…. God Bless you Chris for accepting the truth in scripture that Yashua is truly the Son Of God. Pastor repent!!! 373 Postmodernism 4: Cross-Cultural Conversations, 372 Postmodernism 3: Postmodernism’s Effect Today (Jacob Ballard), 371 Postmodernism 2: Modernism vs. Postmodernism (Jacob Ballard), 370 Postmodernism 1: Worldview (Jacob Ballard), Interview 34: From Pentecostal to Messianic Unitarian (Daniel Calcagno), Five Hundred: From Martin Luther to Joel Osteen, the radical monotheism of Deuteronomy (4.35, 39)and the Shema (Deut 6.4-5). If it is god you have seen god.) Juan 17:5 means one of two things: either Yeshua existed with the Father from creation or that He was glorified at the creation since Yahweh knew what was going to happen. YES Chris……Dead ON!! Here are some others. If you believe in the trinity, you don’t believe that Jesus is the father. What’s your point? (Uhhhh wouldnt you think it would be a bad thing to call God a liar saying it wasnt really his son but it was him. The Saviour proceeds immediately to commend Thomas for believing; but what was the evidence of his believing? Solutions for Problems of the Week can be submitted to Professor Brian Miceli at bmiceli@trinity.edu. And according to a theory of essences or natures, a thing which has or which is an instance of an essence or nature is thereby a thing of a certain kind. They were all glad that he was alive. The confusion comes in because, as a man, he took on the form of a servant. This doctrine teaches that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same entity, until they aren’t. What everyone here forgets, or doesn’t seem to understand, or know is that God said he was the SAVIOR to “all ends of the earth.” (Isaiah 45:22) God tells Moses, “I Am.” (Exodus 3:14) Jesus declares that “Before Abraham was, I Am.” (John 8:58) The Bible tells us there’s only one Father. Isaiah 43:11 Means that only Yahweh is the ultimate saviour. Gods (Yahweys) name forever is The God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Jesus is clearly the son of man and he was given authority by God. But insofar as it posits “three persons” (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), who are “one God,” it appears as inconsistent as the claim that 1+1+1=1. I totally agree with this sentence of yours: “You identify the father and Jesus as two different beings that, along with the Holy Spirit, are in accordance and act as one.” but the following sentence negates the prior “The father, son and holy spirit equal one God.” The scriptures show a clear hierarchy between Yahweh and Yeshua and both Yahweh and Yeshua have the power to send the Spirit. These two beliefs believe that Yeshua is literally Yahweh being manifested in a bodily form. What a powerful discussion! The Trinity is such a widely accepted doctrine that it is strange to see it challenged. I can tell you one thing its not going to be good! 1st John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 22:6, the angel sent in Rev. Oooooooh pastor your are playing the most dangerous game there is. Yeshua allowed Himself to be called the Messiah and that is what the word Christ really means. For God is one, and there is one Mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5). The translators put it as he in English and they also capitalize “El” in the Spanish. Its all about Gods anointed being alive. We say that here to ! One cannot be between us and the Father and be the Father at the same time. It encompasses all aspects of our salvation. The entire foundation of the faith is that Messiah paid the price for our sins by dying an innocent death and being resurrected by the Father. Well, yes God created you but through “God’s only begotten Son”. In Hebrew, Greek, or English, the very purpose of singular personal prounouns is to … 22:6 and Rev. Geee didnt Paul have it right? Subscribe to the Restitutio email list and we'll send you this e-book for free! FIFTH: ANOTHER problem with the Trinity Doctrine is that it leaves no room for (and actually does away with) Christ's Actually being "BEGOTTEN" of the Father. Jesus did not say yes you are correct I am God. Pure Looney Tunes!! Sentence 2: The Father isn’t the Son 1. OOPS. Sun day is SUN WORSHIP DAY…GOD BLESS GREAT SITE …. There is another who is the mediator between man and God. Thomas is unclean and still sinful flesh. So your topic is not my specialty. We have a page dedicated to the Son of God at our assembly’s website. The Spirit isn’t even mentioned. If this was not the meaning of Thomas, then his exclamation was a mere act of profaneness, and the Saviour would not have commended him for taking the name of the Lord his God in vain. the Trinity is never explained in Scripture. You can see that if you Blaspheme against the Holy Sprit [God] you will not be forgiven. A messenger or a Messiah. If this scripture means what it says you don’t have eternal life because you are calling God a liar because you don’t believe that Jesus is his only begotten son you think it was God himself. Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. I’ve seen so much proof but it wasn’t in Scripture I’ve seen this 666 Holy Trinity symbol on everything from The Craft to the book Charmed to all the tattoos of the Holy Trinity in intertwined 666 the Pope’s hat 666 Babylon of the Sun worshipers on his hat but I always said if there is a Holy Trinity then who is the mediator ?? John 5:18 implies that if God is his father, then He is equal to God correct? but I thought there was only one person subsisting in two natures!? I understand. Two witnesses. Sorry guys its time for a little Harsh!! By being the direct Son of God means, in Hebrew culture, that Yeshua was the rightful inheritor of all Creation. No one in the whole bible says “Jesus is the Almighty God” Where is someone confessing this. Can you please give me any other explanation apart from the JWS . If Jesus is not the ONE and ONLY GOD, than there are two of them, and there’s only one. John 1:1 ok I want to better understand your point here. Now if it said he who believes that Jesus is God I would be with you but its clearly not what the whole Bible gives witness to. Arguably the most significant set of problems has to do with the text that the translators were translating. What does the scripture say? AMEN ! Uh oh another lie God says that the words you hear are not his. Answer: Illustrating the Trinity is a noble goal, but it is ultimately an exercise in futility. This is Satan’s trick to take away your salvation. 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Problem of The Week . Other times they state that it is illogical for three gods to be one god; and for that reason, the Trinity can’t be true. While there are verses that sound like Yeshua is God, what He is is a sheliach, which is a representative of God. You would be amazed Its like OMG today you would be totally amazed at what you just did. Do you really want to be glib about this? right? Do you see the problem arising? Soooooooooooooooo Simple. If you are a Unitarian, you believe that the Son is the Father manifested in flesh (which is what you are arguing against ). Has to mean what it says. thank the Lord , I thank the MOST HIGH. St. John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 22:16 in answer to a dear lady’s request to show me Jesus is GOD. The selections I have chosen are the ones I regard as embodying Kel’s main arguments; I have left out what I regard as repetitious or off the point. The One True God is Identified in the Bible as a singular "I", "Me", "He", "Him" and "Who." Christ is His own Father and His own Son. Since the Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy, Rev. Immediately, though, we run into a problem. Put simply, the Trinity and the Gospel are inseparable. Is the Trinity a problem? I like to understand people’s point of views and why they think what they think. I just sat there dumbfounded for several minutes thinking “I’ve studied this vision for thirty years and never saw this?” I consider this a starting point to which we have to reconcile all the scripture quoted that seems to be contrary to what is said in the Revelation. What is meany be being equal to God is from an earlier exchange His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. There is one God and he is not 3 in 1 oil. ), 431: Ephesus (was Mary the bearer of Christ’s divine nature? Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. The Problem of the Trinity. Do you really want to call God a liar? Hi, thanks for the comment! there is no place where Jesus redefined how God is one, but there are several texts in which Jesus clearly and explicitly agreed with the 1st c. Jewish doctrine of God’s oneness. One night as I was rummaging around in Rev. 1st John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Not one mentions the Spirit at all and every one of them mentions Yeshua and the Father as separate beings. I apologize if my wording, definitions or lack of knowledge have offended you. The Son is God 3. . Most who use this phrase to identify themselves believe Yeshua didn’t exist until He was born. “I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour.” The verse tells us God is the only savior, but yet Jesus is called savior? If there is one God Who created the heavens and the earth and Jesus created the heavens and the earth, then Jesus is the one God who created the heavens and the earth. God is our (Christians) father. Do you really want to let Pride get in the way of the truth? Luke 12:10? It’s a little unclear as to who sent the angel (Old Testament Prophet) to John, in Rev. Trinity is nowhere in the bible. That would make Jesus’s resurrection false and a lie with no meaning at all. It means exactly what it says. If this scripture doesn’t mean exactly what it says the Gospel is a lie and God is a liar as well. There are a lot more verses like these. One cannot sit at the right hand of oneself. He said he would not believe that he was alive. I to gave up xmas , EASTER, allllll man made ( TRADIDTION witch is 666 in HEBREW mans TRADIDTION send us to HELL AND I TO STUDY AND SAID ( WE ARE BREAKING THE 4TH COMAND , THATS WHY GOD SAID AND REMEMBER TO KEETHE SABBATH CUZ HE KNEW WE WOULD FOGET!!!! No pious man would have allowed such language to be addressed to him. The scripture says so!! That is never said in scripture. Such revelations in the tradition of the Church can only be indirectly encountered thr… JN 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. JN 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. ), 451: Chalcedon (did Christ have one or two natures? 1st John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. A blantant lie if this is God Almighty. I could write for a while on why using John 1:1-5 as a foundational teaching is really not a good idea, but put simply, we don’t actually have anywhere else to look for similar language to explain those verses. Thomas didn’t believe Jesus was alive. ACTS 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. In light of the recent Trinity debate between Dale Tuggy and Michael Brown, I thought it would be apropos to post this video I did a while back. Couldn’t get any plainer. The term and definition are not in Scripture. A Unitarian is someone who believes that Yahweh alone is the only God and that Yeshua is His Created Son. Gods Holy Spirit eminates solely from him or out of him. He is the image of his Father/God. I had already failed to do that and gave up on it. St. John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. For discussions about other religions, please fill out the contact form on the about page. If God died for our sins it is a false Gospel because the whole thing is a lie because God cannot die. If someone confessed the Shema multiple times a day for his or her whole life and then suddenly someone preached that this needs to be replaced by a three-in-one confession, wouldn’t that at least cause some questioning? Lets get even more witnesses. Enrique, you only replied to my responses and not to the study assignment. Believe, Proclaim, and Confess to all and LIVE!!! him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know(God did all the works through Jesus) His Son!! (Isaiah 9:6) If Jesus is not the Father, than why is he called the Everlasting Father? There’s your hierarchy, brother! Please notice also the statement “he who believes not God has made him a liar”. Jesus is not the God of the old testament he is the SON of the GOD of the old testament. 1:1, but you would assume that would be God, the Father, correct? Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Therefore it is not an accurate statement. Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. “who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped” He was equal to God?…. ), 553: Constantinople II (how can we interpret the dual natures w/o dividing Christ into two), 681: Constantinople III (did Christ have one or two wills? By who??? John 17:5 He was fully glorified before when he was with the father in the beginning. Phil 2:6 it tells us that being equal to God was not something he held on to so in the next 2 verses 7 “but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;” 8 “and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.” We see He emptied himself of all that He had and becomes a servant. Blasphemy to say that Jesus is God. Prophet say in Rev scripture that is. 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